HOW TO PRICE YOUR WORK

this may sound noobish in a way, i haven't done much of freelancing, but as am thinking of becoming one or opening my own biz, i am confused on how i should price my work.

how can you rate it so your not very low (harming other post production people or animators or motion graphixers) and not very high (losing clients).

i understand this comes with experience in the field of freelancing and eventually figure it out all, but i would still like to know heads up of main issues regarding pricing and contracts (and even how to write them so you don't end up in a cell ), and perhaps some knowledge on how payment should be handed to you (some people say 50before 50after) but i really cant depend on one persons thought, so i would like to make this topic HOW TO PRICE YOUR WORK.

i am sure any information here will help others as well THANK YOU IN ADVANCE.

hey!

very interting post... don't expect to see prices i guess...

just to let you know,

i work and get paid per day, i usualy sign a contract at the beginning of the job...

before i start the job, i get as much info as i can to evaluate how long it'll take me...

if it's gonna take me 8 days to do, i always try to let the guy know it's probably gonna take 10, that way i have a margin for unwanted errors and problems showing up, it also make the work stress free if you know what i mean..

in case i don't need these extra two days in the end, i go and see him, and i let him know i should be finnished soonner than i though i would, and let him know that i could leave now, or spend two more days on it polishing it further... most of the time they don't mind you staying..

in fact what i usualy do is that if i see on day 6 that i could be finnished on day 8, i slow down, while still making shure i am doing enough work during the day to be worth what they pay me for.

also it is very important to let your emplyer know how things are working, and how things are not working too! that way, he knows he is not wasting his money on you... so even if you have a problem and spent a day fixing it, let him know what you did...

oh i forgot somthing, i never get paid less than i did on my last job... it's usualy going to be the same or above...

and as far as money goes... if i work 6 days,

i first see what transport and food will cost me, then i see how much the state is gonna take away from me with all the taxes there is, then i see how much my rent is, add all that, all this money wont be mine, so for example:

100$ for food and transport for the week
200$ for taxes
500$ for rent

(theses are stupid numbers, i just use these for my example)

that make 800$ that wont be mine in the end...

on top of that, i add a number that puts a smile on my face when i think about it, while still staying reasonable.. so let's say i would be pleased to get 100$ in my poket per day of work, that makes 600$ for the week (that will go straight to my pocket, not taxes, no nothing just pure cash)... 600+800 makes 1400$ for the six days... that makes 233.333333$ a day so then i say i want 250$ per day...

once again, theses are not real numbers, i just use thoses so that you get my thought precess...

this is an interesting topic, one that i haven't thought much about. lets get more people's opinions!

i agree i want to see more people like zach who is a freelancer, or some one who has a freelancer working for him.

THANK RICH FOR YOUR INPUT (i bet u wish ur costs are 800 ) but one more thing for you DO YOU GET PAID AFTER OR BEFORE?

Hello. I been thinking getting into freelance work near future. I have made a little research about that and i learned that most freelancers take 50% before payment and 50% after the job is done. My question for Richard and other freelancers out there is how do you find your clients. I know that you have portfolio site but how do you find people who need your work? Do you do job over the internet or meet the client in person ??

because i trus the guys and sign a contract with them, i get paid efter... i might regret that someday... but i mean, if they don't pay me, i sue them...

as for gotmilk... for my first job, i went around the web, found a place, called the guys, and that was it... when i was in that job, i meet other people working there, that now work n diferant companies, that's my way in... cause they introduce me when hey need somebody in the new company.. contact is THE most important thing in this industry....

as for all my jobs, i never worked from home, i NEED to be able to separate work from home, but i guess that's just me... so i go and work in the company.

where would one even look to find freelance work?

i dunno,

i surf around the web... i see clips from companies that i like, i call the guys, try arrange a meeting and that's me in! ( or not )
i ask friends where they work
i ask santa for a job for the following year cause i behaved well this year...

anyway, i said enough... let's hear the others...

There are tons of websites out there.

Craigslist (4tw!), http://www.gofreelance.com, http://www.allfreelancework.com, http://www.contractedwork.com, etc.

Just google freelance work and you'll find lots of info. From my experience you'll get the most work from guys you've already worked for once you get a couple of clients and deliver some nice work.

In my current job, although I'm a freelancer I'm getting paid a rate that was set by the company I work for - fair enough as I'm essentially there full time. However when I do small jobs for corporate clients that are two-five day jobs then I have a rate that's much higher. How I came up with the amount... that's basically come from estimating how much I need to survive + benefits + luxuries, then estimating how many days I could realistically work for during the year, including the time spent on other things vital to being a freelancer, such as:
- Searching for work - phone calls, emails, meetings, etc.
- Business-related stuff like book-keeping (accounts)

And other things including:
- Holidays (or vacations for our American chums!)
- Sickness

Set your fee based on these things, so that if you can only work for half the year, you'll survive, and if you work all year round, you'll be comfortable. Don't be afraid to tell them your daily rate, and certainly don't suddenly lower your rate just because they hesitate. You'll be surprised how many people are willing to work for a pittance just to secure a contract. That's bad news for the rest of us, as they're setting a precident for anyone who comes along later. More than likely there'll be someone else they've hired in the past who's more expensive anyway. Some companies actually won't hire the cheapest person, because they get more comfort from paying slightly more, if they like the individual. That's happened to us before - we pitched to make a corporate film and we were more expensive than one of the other companies. However we were deemed to offer better value for money, and we were hired!

As Jay says, the best work comes from existing clients and word-of-mouth. Don't waste money on Google Ads or other paid listings, cos all you'll get are people trying to sell you stuff, rather than buy your services.

Don't forget your showreel - vital to show potential clients what you can do.

As for contracts or terms of business, you can download these for a small fee from the web (not included any links because they are specific to the country you are working in). We did this for our film-making company, and it had clauses like the client must pay 1/3 of the total fee up front, before any work commenced. It also detailed intellectual property rights (copyright, etc.) and a bunch of stuff to protect you against unscrupulous clients. Every client (bar one) was happy with the terms. The one that wasn't (he insisted we sign over all copyright to his company, for no extra money) - we declined the job!

Christian

Well, I read this post a few days ago, and wanted to answer, but decided that I should think about what I want to say in response to it. This is without a doubt, a touchy subject for many people to talk about. And I've decided that I am going to talk a bit about freelancing, but not touch on rates. Sorry guys. So here it goes.

Freelancing is a term I hear thrown around the cg community quite a bit. And what i've noticed in my few years of doing this is that there are two kinds of freelancers. There are the freelancers that are outside of major industry epicenters, and the other freelancers that live in places not known for their cg production industry. This being the case, pay is different in each of the two based on budget alone. That being the case, you also have to factor in experience level. Many companies will have a small budget and go after "freelancers" outside of the epicenters because they feel that they do not know anything about the industry, and this is often true because unless you've worked in an "epicenter" as I like to call it, you can't know because you haven't worked there, and if you have, then you know that it is different because it's a different ballgame in many respects.

My experience outside of epicenters has been this, you live in somewhere far away from where many of the projects are being done, and so you get many fringe companies, opportunities presented to you, you are young, trying to get experience, and are willing to trade work for experience, this is to the companies advantage, and being older, wiser, and feeling like they hold the keys, they know that they are in the power position. So they will try and get your work from you for as cheap as possible, and this is a universal concept. However, you work from home, and use your own equipment, and possibly don't have the resources you might otherwise have to solve weird problems. So in a way, you are really on your own, and the market is pretty thin. All these and many more factors can add up to a fairly hostile environment that may leave you feeling pretty sore when a job is all said and done.

My experience inside the epicenters has been an entirely different one as a freelancer. Most places in an epicenter who hire freelancers are established places getting work from big network clients who want quality work, and want to be able to ask for more from their vendors. I happen to like this a bit better because:

A: it pays better without a doubt
B: You usually get to work on a machine that's lightyears better than what you have at home
C: You get to work on cool projects that you will see on tv or big screen.
D: You get paid to network and make more clients for yourself. And this is a big one because people start calling you instead of you hunting them down.
E: The creative environment working with other people is much more stimulating than working in your livingroom/apt/ect. And will spur your growth as an artist and force you to step your game up or you will sink.
F: You are empowered as an artist because you get put into a position where you are hired on because they need a good artist, not because you are cheap labor and can get the job done.

That being said, I don't mean any disrespect Mahmoud, but if you are asking the kind of question like how much should I be charging, then maybe you should be hitting the bricks and getting your feet wet before you try to start a company. I think it's an awesome idea, and an excellent goal to have, but I think if you don't know what to charge then maybe you should be getting some more experience, and earning your position rather than just providing a service without really knowing what goes into it fully.
So instead of quoting rates or anything silly like that, i'll provide you with a basic formula similar to what's already been stated on this thread.

How much is my rent per month, I should make this in a week at least. and if I cant, then I should get a different job or smaller apt.
Am I using my own machine?
Am I driving to/from work?
Luxury? What do I need to be happy? be realistic. the operative word here is NEED.
Also, how booming is buisiness where i'm at, think supply and demand.
And finally, how much experience do I have? Have I been doing this for 1,2,3, 15 years? if i've only been doing it for one year, then I don't have an incredible reputation yet do I?

All that being said, you will prob give your client a number that will inevitably make them crap, but then you come to a compromise that will make you both happy, and that's how it works. There are always exceptions to the rule, and it's never good to assume you are that. That being said, It's always good if you're not in an epicenter to get at least 25 % up front and then only deliver proxies with watermarks on them until final delivery and you've been paid. That will prevent anyone from taking you for a ride. And it will also let them know you intend on delivering a product but that you are serious about contractual obligations. Many companies handle things this way and it's a great form of advertisement for you while being an informative part of the process. So yeah man, I hope that was somewhat helpful.

-Z

Awesome post Z. This is an interesting discussion. A couple of years back (in the days of n00b) when I came across threads about freelancing I was always surprised at the way people were reluctant to talk about rates.... like it was some secret society or something. But I came to see that it's just so very difficult to put a figure on things as the rate depends on may factors. This post has certainly clarified some of the reasons why you can't simply say "expect 5 bucks per keyframe" and is food for thought to anyone considering jumping in to freelance work.

PS. I like the sound of creative epicenters

wow great post zachm, i'm takin it to heart this thread is really helpful to me right now, since I'll be joining the workforce in roughly 9 months.